Sunday, March 28, 2010

Theodicy discussions ...

I received two communications this morning, one in an email from a friend, another in a comment on an earlier post here. Both writers dealt with the subject of theodicy (the problem of evil), each of them from a unique vantage.


First I opened an email from long-time friend, Laurie Burke. She was returning to Tennessee (where she is pursuing a PhD in Clinical Psychology at the University of Memphis) from an APA conference in Baltimore. The conference was on the Psychology of Spirituality and Religion, and she had presented a paper on bereavement distress and complicated grief, her subspecialty. She wrote to tell me of the role theodicy played in many discussions at the conference. One’s ability (or lack of) to reconcile faith in an inherently good God with personal suffering, bereavement, and grief has a profound effect upon one’s ability to process personal loss. This is the practical, intensely personal side of the otherwise philosophical and sometimes dry discussion of the problem of evil.


Second, Mike Gene (author of Design Matrix which I discussed briefly here) commenting on my post entitled “Retroactive Curse?”, accepted my challenge to discuss theodicy from the standpoint of a believer who accepts the findings of modern science and recognizes the centrality of the apparent dilemma which persistent evil poses to Christian theology.


As I have often found it difficult to engage the Christian community in this discussion, I was greatly encouraged to receive these two communications affirming that theodicy matters, and that believers ought to be engaged in coming to terms with the problem of evil.


I had planned to write a more comprehensive detailing of my own theodicy views, but personal challenges in my own life have curtailed my own writing for the present. Then, along come these two writers with some distinct thoughts on the subject. Perhaps they can be persuaded to offer guest posts here. I have asked them to do just that!

19 comments:

tim martin said...

come on guys you cant leave us hanging

Rich G. said...

Cliff:

"One’s ability (or lack of) to reconcile faith in an inherently good God with personal suffering, bereavement, and grief has a profound effect upon one’s ability to process personal loss. This is the practical, intensely personal side of the otherwise philosophical and sometimes dry discussion of the problem of evil."

Thank you for writing this. Could it be that how we go through the times of loss (losing a family member, one's health, finances, etc.) demonstrate what we really believe about the theodicy "problem"?

Rich G.

Tom said...

Hi Cliff,

I also liked your line: One’s ability (or lack of) to reconcile faith in an inherently good God with personal suffering, bereavement, and grief has a profound effect upon one’s ability to process personal loss.

One month ago, my aunt fell down a flight of stairs and had a resulting brain hemorrhage. It pretty much destroyed her brain stem and other areas of her brain. She occasionally opens her right eye and can squeeze with her right hand, but not really on command so it is difficult to say how cognizant she is of anything. The prognosis is that if she recovers at all, it will be profoundly limited.

What my mom prays for is that the Lord will simply take her. She is frustrated by the predicament that her sister will never experience a decent quality of life, nor will she simply die. Her sister's suffering and the family's heartache at wondering what to do in terms of her care are emotionally draining.

While they have a lot of church, friends, and familial support, what has been frustrating for me to watch is everyone's faith in faith. They believe this must be part of a divine plan, which they do not understand, but will know "someday" when they get to sit down and talk about it with Jesus. They keep looking for a sign from God to help them make the right decisions, yet they fail to be able to look at the data that medicine has provided.

None of these kinds of decisions are easy, nor should the emotional component be ignored, but by throwing God's purpose into the mix, I don't see any healing.

Cliff Martin said...

Tim,
Thanks for your comment! I know I put Laurie and Mike on the spot with this post. But I suppose that was my intention.

Rich,
Yes, I believe you are correct. And as I wrote to my friend Laurie, "My interest in theodicy has never been merely academic." That is, my pursuit of a meaningful theodicy has always been practical and personal. And I do believe it makes a difference in how we, as believers, respond. And Tom offers a case in point ...

Tom,
I have often been frustrated, sometimes angered (see this post), by the "weirdness" evangelical theology spawns, and your story is an example. I am convinced that your believing family could be strengthened and, strangely, encouraged by their faith. But when we approach these events as they are apparently doing, faith only exacerbates confusion and despair.

Rich G. said...

Tom:

"While they have a lot of church, friends, and familial support, what has been frustrating for me to watch is everyone's faith in faith."

You have hit on something important - a common failing among well-meaning believers. "Faith in faith..."

" They believe this must be part of a divine plan, which they do not understand, but will know "someday" when they get to sit down and talk about it with Jesus."

I think too many miss one of the points of the story of Job. As the story goes, Job complained over and over that he wanted to ask God "Why did you do this to me?", then when God does show up, the "Why..." question is completely ignored. Not even considered. What makes any modern believer think he or she deserves more?

"They keep looking for a sign from God to help them make the right decisions..."

According to my reading of the Catholic saints (St John of the Cross iirc) having to be told what to do isn't really faith; it's just following directions. Just last night, several friends said (in various ways) "If you just ask God, he'll tell you". That may work for a neophyte, but it's not been my experience of late. It's more like God has taken off the training wheels and said: "Go ahead... It'a YOUR life, not mine."

Rich G.

Mike Gene said...

Hi Cliff (and others),

Just saw this entry (I was still focused on the old one). I could write a guest post for you, but it would have to wait until later in the future, as I would need to sit down and organize all my thoughts into a coherent narrative. If you want, I can email you when I’m ready (and you should always feel free to email me to inquire).

All I can do for the time being is offer up some questions and thoughts that have helped me tremendously over the years. And let me also note that I don’t speak from some aloof, abstract position. I’ve known personal suffering, bereavement, and grief all too well.

I begin by asking myself a fundamental question – Who am I?

When answering my own question, I find that I am forced to allude to my genetic/physical features, my experiences and memories, my beliefs and convictions, and perhaps most importantly, my choices throughout my life. I’m not quite sure how anyone could disagree with this. After all, if you wanted to read a biography of Mike Gene, aren’t these the very things you would look for? And the more of this type of information you had, the more you would feel that you knew me.

If this resonates, we can take the next step.

[Keep in mind that I am not playing a rhetorical game or setting any “traps” to “win” debates. I’m just trying to convey what I see.]

Cliff Martin said...

Mike,

We can wait. But I would very much like to post your thoughts here.

Who am I?
I think I am tracking with you here. Without our specific history (including ancient genetic history and more recent experiential history) we would not be who, or what, we are. We would be different. If we (as we are) were a goal of creation, than everything in creation would have to be just as it is.

Even if this is so, are we not still left with a bit of ends justifying means?

Cliff Martin said...

Mike,

Are you familiar with the writings of Simon Conway-Morris on convergence and the evolutionary predictability of mankind as we know it? When I put his ideas together with your ideas on front-loaded evolution, and further combine them with what (I think) you are driving at here, we have a creation filled with purpose and design, but with little or no supernatural intervention. Hmm.

Rich G. said...

Cliff:

"When I put his ideas together with your ideas on front-loaded evolution ... we have a creation filled with purpose and design, but with little or no supernatural intervention."

May I rephrase it to "but needing little or no supernatural intervention."? For I think we both believe that such intervention can and does happen, but on a voluntary rather than essential basis.

Cliff Martin said...

Rich,

Yes, you are correct. But my comment had more to do with creative processes, less with God's dealings in individual lives or the flow of human history.

The sort of divine intervention often implicit in Christian teleology and/or I.D. is what many secularists object to ... and their objections may be valid. If Conway-Morris and Gene are correct, we can study natural history as just that, natural history, and yet have a process filled with Divine purpose and, yes, design.

Mike Gene said...

Hi Cliff,

I think I am tracking with you here. Without our specific history (including ancient genetic history and more recent experiential history) we would not be who, or what, we are. We would be different. If we (as we are) were a goal of creation, than everything in creation would have to be just as it is.

Exactly. In fact, if we were different, we wouldn’t exist. Thus, it makes no sense to imagine us living in some alternative reality. Alternative realities could exist without us, but we cannot exist in an alternative reality.

Even if this is so, are we not still left with a bit of ends justifying means?

I don’t think so. This concern only exists if there are multiple means to the same end. In this case, the means and the end are united into one – my history is part of my identity.

Mike Gene said...

Cliff: If Conway-Morris and Gene are correct, we can study natural history as just that, natural history, and yet have a process filled with Divine purpose and, yes, design.

Yes. In fact, we could even expand on this by using the central metaphor from the DM - just because we study the Duck does not mean we see no Rabbit.

Mike Gene said...

I forget to add one more thing. I wrote, “Thus, it makes no sense to imagine us living in some alternative reality. Alternative realities could exist without us, but we cannot exist in an alternative reality.”

As Christians, our future does entail existence in an alternative reality – Heaven. But we don’t shed our bodies and identities – they are resurrected in a transformed, glorified state, a state that is no longer separated from God.

Rich G. said...

Cliff:

I found this in my most recent Touchstone magazine:

"But what in Scripture or the Christian tradition says everything can be classified as either "God did this miraculously" or "This happened naturally; God had nothing to do with it, and he was rather surprised at the result"? Yes, the universe runs by rational laws. Yet every atom and natural law exists only because God sustains it. Being outside of time, he eternally creates the whole space-time continuum out of nothing. If the bacterial flagellum evolved, it's because God willed it into being at every stage, not because he left it alone for a million years and came back to check the results.

Many flinch at the word "chance" in descriptions of evolution. But we are all children of chance, formed by the random combination of our parents' DNA. Yet God says, "Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you." If God's providence can coexist with the chance involved in conception...I don't see why natural selection should render him powerless.
"

This writer appears to reject an "either-or" approach to the question of divine guidance in creation, but more of a "both-and" understanding. I think I agree.

Rich G.

Cliff Martin said...

Rich,

I think we will someday understand how totally random certain natural processes have been, while at the same time God's providence was constantly at work. Have you read Colling's book, Random Designer? I think he makes this point. His main point is that randomness is not just a optional feature of evolution, but essential to the whole notion of evolution.

But ... as comforting as it may be to get God "back in the driver's seat" by assigning him a more direct control over the process, my concern has always been the other side of the coin. If he is active in driving the evolutionary processes which lead to modern man, this also would assign to him more direct responsibility for malaria, finely-tuned predatory relationships, horrifying aspects of certain parasitic behavior, thousands of extinctions, untold animal pain, etc. Do you want really want to say that God "wills [these things] into being at every stage"?

Rich G. said...

Cliff:

I wouldn't say want to.

Rich G.

Cliff Martin said...

Rich,

Maybe "want to say" was a poor choice of words.

But the point is this: my thinking about theology tends toward concepts that solve problems without creating new ones. And when it comes to evolutionary history, a reliance upon randomness taking its own course with God as observer, and not engineer, seems to solve more problems than it creates.

But I do agree that there was likely some mix of design and randomness at work.

Rich G. said...

Cliff:

How are you guys faring?

BTW, I've had this rolling around in my head for several weeks:

"But the point is this: my thinking about theology tends toward concepts that solve problems without creating new ones. And when it comes to evolutionary history, a reliance upon randomness taking its own course with God as observer, and not engineer, seems to solve more problems than it creates. "

I'm not sure the paradox of randomness vs. guided creation is ultimately solvable. This does not mean that I think the search for answers is pointless. Historically, it is just this search that has revealed many heresies - 'simplified answers' if you will. Each of the historical heresies has been an attempt to make the truths of God, Christ, the Gospel more palatable, more understandable, less offensive. But it has been the thinkers of the church (the ones not satisfied with the simplistic, but resting in the simple) that have exposed the errors of the heresies.

All in all, I am convinced the search for answers is fruitful and not to be abandoned lightly - and that that answer is ultimately an unsolvable paradox, who is a Person.

Rich G.

Cliff Martin said...

Hi Rich,

I think we are doing as well as can be expected. My family is beyond wonderful! Lots of adjustments.

Most of theology (I am convinced) is conjectural and inferential. Fundamentalists may not be comfortable with the notion, but we really know far less than we typically assert. With that in mind, I purposefully move forward along two tracks simultaneously:

1. Humbly rejecting certitude, I maintain a tentativeness in all my thinking, and

2. Boldly pursuing truth, I try to make the best sense possible of the data available.

You may be right; some mysteries may be unsolvable. But you and I agree, the pursuit is worthwhile, and not only because false thinking is revealed thereby. But as our database grows (and it is growing!!), analysis, reasoning and debate hold promise of leading us closer to ultimate truth!